And in 1 Corinthians 5, we are told to judge those within the Church). Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! These things happen in small churches too. How dare you question her about why? Why? I praise your decision to own your ministry outside of James. Sheesh. Muller had prematurely announced the pastors departure on Friday morning on his show on WLS 890 AM, going on to declare on Twitter, Conman Boss James Macdonald OUT of Harvest Church!. God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Following the initial World report, MacDonald announced he would be taking a sabbatical, but suggested he may still occasionally preach at a Harvest-affiliated church in Florida. []. It was both true in a sense and funny. A friend sent me a link to sermon about this yesterday: https://radical.net/sermon/kingdom-community/. or is it the congregations fault for being weak and gullible? My heart breaks for the people that have been hurt by this on both sides. Did you see the link to my web page. Sunday Service-10:15 AM/Wed. Because these leaders will continue this false deceitful way of life that flows from them so seamlessly, so easily, and with such persuasiveness. Also note how the apostle Paul called out Peter publicly when Peter was indulging in hypocrisy! I used to go to a church in AZ pastored by Jon Gaus. Our family was kicked out of our church plant campus and everyone at the church was told not to talk to us because we were disobedient by speaking out against the things were were seeing. The Scripture that came to me as I read this is I Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but one of power, love, and sound judgment. Wounds take a great deal of time to heal and its appropriate to share them and warn others to avoid similar church abuse. Also Thank you Lina for having the courage to say something now. I really think you hit the nail on the head when you said you realized something dark about yourself, that you had been a woman ruled by fearand I could identify with what you said since I had been that woman too. Unfortunately I dont think the Harvest RM is the only Harvest with a culture of fear. Nellie, Im sorry for your comment. We are thankful and humbled by His care and protection of our family. When we left, after having posted a letter to the elders, not a single person called us to see how we were doing. New to Harvest and my faith in Christ, I didnt know what was going on and still kinda of unclear of all the details. People in leadership are there one day, and then poof! I have or attend 3 or more small groups a week now and feel alive. Lina, you are strong and your faith in the Lord is inspiring. He spoke highly of you, and since then, I have occasionally prayed for you regarding your time and experience at HBC. Ive always appreciated your candor and honesty, and I think the Lord has gifted you with a strong sense of discernment. We confronted him basically because of the way he had attacked a youth at the time and his mother for bringing up how the pastor was making this youth to feel. MacDonald is not being kicked while hes down. That IS A LIE!! Thanks again, Lina, for being courageous in the midst of these difficult days. I left Harvest about a year before you did, and I also stayed, for the most part, silent out of the same fear you described. You can read about the continued corruption and fraud here: Dan George's Resignation. After that, I felt like my time was wasted. We continue in prayer for all those affected near and far. No, I dont as well as many others. Rather, God is shaking the junkall of our junkout of His Church. The assistant pastor just tried to deflect and justify the pastors actions. Two top Harvest Bible Chapel pastors today announced they're resigning, following a "season" of difficulty sparked by the termination and scandal involving disgraced celebrity pastor, James MacDonald. From elders (Dave Corning, Jon Gaus, The Elephant Debt etc) to nobodies one by one we were all ignored and in many cases bullied. Im disappointed in your timing. I can see you have regret for not having the courage to do it then but youre working to make up for it by speaking now. We dont know each other, but I found this via Julie Roys Twitter. The church and its people helped create Pastor James He is not the only one involved it was a group effort. The environment is as ahw stated, fear James, make James happy The problem was not simply Harvest messaging, but also the teachings that made such messagingmake sense. Good for you and speaking up. I left for the Truth of Orthodoxy! Some women were still in the middle of the trauma and were still currently attending Harvest. Rotate positions? Be blessed. Doing ministry you love. [], Lost me at the private jet shared with Bill Hibel. model and not on the Old Testament hierarchical model. Were you bullied by those elders named? I love you and our Lird. Harvest responded by suing both bloggers, their wives, and Julie Roys. Agreed Sheila. Thank you. Even now, many years later, the enemy could still, if I let him, get me questioning my motives and trying to persuade me I was in the wrong not the shepherds. I should have walked out but, I too, was afraid. This post reminds me of something that happened at my former church. Ill let the others fight that fight today. I believe Lina did do the best she could at the time. Truth heals. Well said Lina. whos fault is this? Pray and console those whose faith has weakened from this. Put faith in Gods justice and judgement upon all, now that sin has been exposed. Did they not find that video shocking? I, too, have friends who have never once asked how I am or why I left. Walked out of that service. But thats how it happens at Harvest, right? Gods hand is on Harvest and the dark is continuing to be shown. I regret staying at Harvest after that meeting with the elders. Like you, Lina, Ive listened to people wounded by sin, power grabs and wrongdoing by Church leaders. I agree with Nellie. But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning. Still, things seemed off. Too many of these large churches have lost track of what their true purpose is. *Strong Bad: Just for the record, in all kindness Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. Yes, there are a lot of hurting people at Harvest. It permeates through the woman that you are. Dont stop trusting or loving. This post drips of mercy. Since I know I am capable of the worst sin, I am choosing to show grace and praying fervently. Each former leader that speaks out helps us heal and validates our experience. These three men had then joined six other former eldersthese men had all left Harvest entirelyin writing and sending a letter to the current elder board raising concerns about MacDonalds leadership. Pastor James teaching seemed so Biblical. Different situations require different things. He (the pastor) basically told us we would never work in ministry (volunteer or vocationally) because we didnt understand biblical authority. Dont talk to them, or theyll drag you down too. What had these individuals done? This problem is not isolated to Harvest. In announcing MacDonalds termination, Harvest elders stated they are committed to fulfilling our fiduciary duty as the leadership of this congregation, knowing that at times the outcome may be misunderstood or emotionally painful. The Bible even says Truth shall set you free. Youre sharing your story and I think those who have been hurt by HBC (including me) needs to hear these stories. Harvest Bible Chapel has reached a multimillion-dollar agreement to transfer some of its assets to former pastor James MacDonald, who plans to continue in ministry outside the Chicago-area megachurch. HARVEST EN ESPAOL is available in person on Sundays at 11:00 AM in Cornerstone. Thank you Lina for your honesty and boldness and ultimately helping me put words to what I have been experiencing through the preaching of James. Be kind not hurtful. This past Sunday, Harvests elders and remaining pastors were in serious damage control mode. The question is with independent churches who did they answer to? I pray for the leaders. In the early 2000s, Harvest embarked on an ambitious expansion plan, aiming to form "10 churches in 10 years." Since then the church has opened locations in Elgin, Highland Park, Niles, Crystal. [], [] While only a handful showed up, the range of their pain was wide. All why surrounding himself w/yes men. Id encourage you to read the prophets again, and ask, what upsets the heart of God? And then maybe its time to ask whether those things should upset you as well. This journey has taken me several years. I am so proud of Lina and she is speaking out the words that I would never say because I live in fear of that kind of authority. He is not being bullied. The issue here is not TIMING or kicking someone when theyre down its about exposing ungodly, cowardly behavior and making people aware of its existence. Shes not the only one there are many. In her expos, titled Hard Times at Harvest, Roys details evidence from former Harvest elders, employees and members that show an ongoing pattern of relational and financial abuse, a lack of transparency and outright deception., Harvest strongly disputes the claims, saying Roys has an unhealthy fixation on the church and failed to uncover the desired scandal.. I too visited Harvest. Pray for the church and the people! Thank you for adding your voice to the now chorus of voices calling for a time of judgment and reform. We have seen this very truth of Jesus teaching publicly demonstrated by Mancow and many other witnesses. Sadly, this cancer has spread to other churches that were once part of the fellowship. The Pastor started teaching on obeying your authority and not questioning authority etc. God has said that those who are give much is required. Then the board announced its executive committee would be resigning over the next few months. Soon we must bring those truths to light, but for now we continue under the weight of so much falsehood in hope that the church will themselves initiate the needed steps of public confession, he wrote. This comment to Harvest and James is your opinion and you have every right to it. * 36But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. MacDonald took an indefinite sabbatical in January, following a tumultuous few months defending Harvest in a defamation lawsuit against its critics and in the aftermath of a World magazine investigation into mismanagement at the church. Be very careful Azaelea. Harvest Kids is our weekend experience for kids (babies to fifth grade). How long before we wake up and show the world how Christians are not only different from the world but we are not of the world! I feel angry that the people who were supposed to be watching over the congregation allowed this to go on. Your realness. I havent seen the video but abuse of power at any level is sickening!! I applaud you for your courage to leave the church and let the fall out damage by James to you as a person and your career ministry, to be in Gods hands. That is at the root of a serious problem that the Church hardly touches. This is a very vulnerable time for a lot of people and I am sure God weeps for every single wounded soul.. The evangelical megachurch system, where multilayered ministries form around a single persona, leaves ample room for mismanagement and abuse of authority. Welcome to Ohio. The Lord knows and he keeps the books. To judge a fellow brother and think you know if he is a believer is dangerous. I dont see anything mean in her commentary. Can Bubble Tea Bring Gen Z into the Chinese Church. When God led me to leave HBC, I remember being so sad and afraid and wondering if I was hearing Him correctly. I grew up in the Church of Christ. Even before the Garden of Eden seduction, he foresaw the need for The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Your leaving (however late you feel it was) was His provision for others, much like Joseph sent ahead to Egypt years ahead of his brothers and father. First, they resigned, along with a third elder (who was not excommunicated only because he also left Harvest and was no longer a member), in protest of how the church was being run. And, at the same time, I know you to be a humble woman, easily impacted by negative, feedback. She has a right to expose. Thank you Lina, While I have no say in the future of Harvest, it is ridiculous to think that any healthy future can take place until the cancer is removed. But I hope the healing can begin, and I hope the abuse will stop.. Welcome to the Video Broadcast ministry of Cornerstone Bible Church. Dan was a part of this elder board with these 7 elders and he details only some of the fraud . I think that was beautifully stated. The problem definitely doesnt end with James. 6. A defamation lawsuit by the church against the website, and Julie Roys, a reporter for the bi-weekly Christian World magazine, who investigated Harvest, was dropped last month. He kept telling me that I didnt understand authority and I was in rebellion. I continue to pray for the people this has affected, the elders and pastors, and that the darkness will be continually exposed to the light. Wow. Im a prostate cancer survivor and had radical prostatectomy in 2005. There are larger lessons to be learned. Your mission and your ministry is beautiful and changing lives. At Camp Harvest in 2009, for example, the pastor shot at a target that contained photos of some elders wives. Will those men now be known for their mark as sinful followers of James? What happens next? Ive been asked, what would I do if I were still on staff. Thank you Lina! But, the truth is, I am ashamed to say, I should have left much sooner. However, 2 of the groups meet in Panera Bread. Otherwise, the church must answer the same question, for that is one of the majors that Jesus gave us. see My Dream Church https://sites.google.com/site/mydreamchurch/, I would love to chat and learn more of what you are doing. I just want you to know that what you did at HBC mattered, and your presence is greatly missed. No one asked why I quit attending after 15 years. He kept going back to you disobeyed the pastor so youre wrong (me in this case for talking to the youth and his mom about it after it happened). While many in the congregation were willing to give it a second chance, some members raised concerns about many of these individuals closeness to MacDonald, and their willingness to cover for him for so long. Do elder boards mean anything, or are they just there to look pretty? Id like to think its the fear of man spoken about in the Bible but I think it often goes beyond that. No shame here for Lina. see My Dream Church https://sites.google.com/site/mydreamchurch/. Last November, Harvests new elders (all those who served under MacDonald stepped down) declared that their former pastor failed to meet the elder qualifications laid out in Scripture and could not return to their church. Nellie, Horrified. Church Online is a place for you to experience God and connect with others. Christ followers are saying enough. In October, the church reported its chief information officer to police for suspected embezzlement. Im one of the people who asked you to share why you left. I totally agree with you Patti. Both can be messy, but in the latter case, responsibility for that mess must be laid squarely at the feet of the abusive Elders who are sinning, not at the feet of Christs little ones, the oppressed members of Christs flock, who are being caused to stumble, nor at the feet of those attempting to triage the wounded and sound a warning to others who are in danger of being It seems to have so many cracks in the structure. The confidence I hang on to today is that whether I am approved or critiqued for this opinion, it is Christs love that will catch me and his arms that will continue to sustain me when I close my eyes at the end of each new day. Many were intimidated, called names, called subversives. Thank you for your response. Some women were still in the middle of the trauma and were still currently attending Harvest. I was recovering from the deep wounds and hurts from when we left when this all came rushing back in and opening old wounds. But the truth needs to be out there. Yet a week ago I posted on FB an invitation to open my house to anyone who needed to talk about their pain as it related to what was happening at Harvest. The Spirit has shown me that Church, the Body of called out believers are those Christians you meet with. If you know anything about abuse it can take years to come forward. Several years went by and one family apologized to us as did another man. Others wised up and slowly left. What would it take to convince an elder board to question its pastor? He claimed he would never return to Willow until things had changed and the time was right. The timing of this article makes you less credible. Its where I was led to Christ. Your two posts make no sense I hope you get some sense and realize people in Church are not infallible only Jesus! Lean should read it and reply in kind. Sounds like your faith in self is overwhelming only yourself! I was wrong in hindsight. Well said. I am excited for all God is doing in your life to help other women get closer in their relationship with Jesus. I have never attended Harvest. One person (not from Harvest) asked if I needed to call the church to cancel my membership. This pastor couldnt have been more wrong. On February 12th, someone who sounded an awful lot like James MacDonald called into Mancow Mullers Chicago-area radio show to cuss out all of his perceived enemies. Based on just the first few paragraphs, I hear you! Does It Matter Where Your Clothes Come From? I grew up catholic and vever really got a hold of it all. That occurred right after eight former elders sent a letter to the current elder board, claiming that MacDonald was guilty of self-promotionlove of moneydomineering and bullyingabusive speechoutbursts of anger[and] making misleading statements. Harvest countered by accusing those eight former elders of great sin and defiling many people., The three censured elders said Harvest maintained a culture of fear and intimidation that destroyed relationships. He is very likely not a brother in Christ. Mike was genuinely shocked when we told him our son had Paxton as a camp counselor for whole week at Camp Harvest and we never received notice as HBC falsely told Daily Herald. The ungodly jockying for power and control is still an issue in all our churches. These changes were never made, but the critics were silencedfor a time. The day I watched the video, I emailed my campus pastor and asked for an explanation. The news came less than a week after another update from Julie Roys, a defendant in the lawsuit and the writer responsible for the World investigation, who has continued to release evidence against MacDonald and call for his resignation. May God have mercy on his soul. I do have to laugh though. Then, a famous friend of his, Chicago shock jock Mancow Muller, spoke out in a local newspaper against the manipulation and ego he observed around MacDonalds cult of personality at Harvest. I left HBC Davenport 4 years ago because of the spiritual abuse that is happening there as well. I, like you, am so thankful for how God has worked in me and my family through the ministries at Harvestincluding the teaching and selfless service of Lina, and so many others (some who have left, and some who chose to stay). Theres a difference between stirring the pot and exposing false teachers as the Scriptures instruct us to do. Fear that your leaving would damage those you ministered to. Your staying as long as you did part of the clarity and power youve experienced in communicating what youve seen. Prayer works as we understand to be HIS humble servants. I left the church 4 years ago, the week after 3 elders were publiclyex-communicated on a cheap home made movie not worthy of one wasted second of the worship service. You are Loved I think I am gonna throw up. A friend sent a link showing a video of a former Willow pastors return to that church to speak after leaving a decade ago for similar reasons as you left Harvest. Conversions credited to women evangelists sharing the good news one-on-one in conversations. Gods heart, over and over again, is for those who are oppressed. The church, which has a weekly attendance of more than 12,000 at its seven campuses, is also associated with Vertical Worship, Harvest Christian Academy (HCA), and MacDonalds Walk in the Word TV and radio ministry. Do you remember how Jesus acted towards the money changers and false shepherds? Others, too, could see the attitude. God is using this to grow me as he does in all trials, so for that Im grateful. If they built it, it is theirs to destroy. ! My precious, from a far, friend who I have watched since your first speaking engagement at Harvest. Specifically, I do mean the Machiavellian rule by fear and division that we are seeing. The church has responded by hiring Lawrence Swicegood, the executive director of communications at Gateway Church, who was also hired by Harvest Bible Chapel when facing its scandal involving James MacDonald. And then unfortunately when we do speak up we get comments like yours saying why nowit seems Christians cant win either way. You are loved. Thank you for teaching even in the midst of giving your testimony. You must not feel sorry for James. As Pastor James has said in the past, truth and time go hand-in-hand. see My Dream Church https://sites.google.com/site/mydreamchurch/. Life goes on people repent and grace is for everyone. Thank you, Lord, for Ephesians 6:13: It is important to bring light to this matter, help yourself and others heal and put a new song of praise and trust in Our God. Truth is healthy. It was an extremely long and difficult decision to finally leave (we did our best to leave peacefully with the good of Christs church in mind) knowing very well that our reputations and many of our friendships we had there would be severely if not permanently damaged. If you know anything about abusive relationshipsHBC is in the honeymoon phase right now.look it up!! Witnesses say MacDonald was angry that the photo was still on display. We have now been without a fellowship for nearly a year (we are missionaries in Europe) because I do not want to join a happy clappy crowd who would not know the Word of God were it to bite them nor do I want to join a fellowship where the Word is extremely well known but there is no life, no joy. out of fear you complied Thankful for her thoughtful response and I agree with you that God knows all of this and isnt surprised by any of it including the timing of her response. The moment I read about someone saying something about planting child pornography on the Christianity Todaycomputers, I knew I had to figure out what the heck was going on. Harvest dropped the lawsuit; MacDonald took a leave of absence; Roys revealed that MacDonald had lied; and then, finally, MacDonald went on a public vulgar, slander-laced tirade against Roys and Christianity Today. Opt out of mega church? The message we received was they were sorry we felt that way and they were sure it was not his intention. Thank you and thank Lina. I do have cds and dvd of contemporary Christian artists. Structure: the structure of My Dream Church is based on the New Testament Body Of Christ The link was in my post above. I have since moved on and seen God do some pretty amazing God-sized miracles in my life and ministry (evidently, God does work outside of the walls of Harvest Bible Chapel!). Until recently, I was 8 year member of HBC and I feel so sad, confused, betrayed. A year later, MacDonald apologized for the harsh discipline taken against the three men, adding that Harvest had meaningfully and mutually reconciled with them. Before the article was even printed, Harvest sued Roys, plus two bloggers who've been critical about problems at Harvest. Because ultimately what God wants is not a huge army of women who are nice. He clearly told me that they send out reminders to give. She did not claim it was her trurh , but opinion. 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